151: Why So Many Men Struggle to Love, Connect, and Feel Their Emotions | The Hidden Roots of Addiction and Relationship Pain (With Dr. Eddie Capparucci)

Do you ever feel like you genuinely want connection, but somehow keep finding yourself disconnected?

You want to be close to your wife. You want deeper relationships. You want to feel connected to God. You want to be emotionally present with your children. You want to overcome pornography addiction and become the man you know you are capable of being.

Yet when life becomes painful, stressful, overwhelming, or emotionally intense, you find yourself withdrawing, shutting down, becoming defensive, or looking for an escape.

For many men, this is one of the most confusing parts of recovery. You know pornography is hurting your life. You know it is damaging your relationships. You know it leaves you feeling ashamed, discouraged, and disconnected. Yet despite your best efforts, you continue finding yourself pulled back toward the same patterns.

Why?

In this episode of No More Desire, I sit down with therapist, author, and addiction specialist Dr. Eddie Capparucci to discuss why so many men struggle to love, connect, and feel their emotions. We explore the hidden relationship between pornography addiction, emotional regulation, attachment wounds, childhood experiences, and the deep human need for connection.

One of the most powerful ideas we discuss is that pornography addiction is often far less about sexual desire than most men realize. While many men believe they are fighting a battle with lust, the deeper struggle is frequently emotional pain. Pornography often becomes a way to escape loneliness, rejection, shame, inadequacy, stress, anxiety, disappointment, or emotional overwhelm. In other words, it is not always about pursuing pleasure. Often, it is about finding relief.

Dr. Capparucci shares insights from decades of clinical experience helping men understand the emotional roots of addiction. We discuss how many men grow up without learning how to process difficult emotions in healthy ways. They learn how to work hard, solve problems, achieve goals, and provide for others, but they never learn how to sit with sadness, fear, shame, rejection, or vulnerability. As a result, many men enter adulthood emotionally disconnected from themselves and unsure how to create meaningful connection with others.

We also talk about attachment wounds and how childhood experiences shape the way men relate to emotions, relationships, and recovery. This is not about blaming parents or searching for someone to fault. It is about understanding the stories we formed about ourselves when emotional needs went unmet and how those stories continue influencing our lives today. Many men are still carrying beliefs like "I am not enough," "I have to handle everything on my own," or "My emotions do not matter," without even realizing it.

Throughout the conversation, we explore why emotional regulation is one of the most important skills a man can develop in recovery. If a man cannot regulate emotional discomfort, he will constantly search for ways to escape it. This is why lasting freedom requires more than accountability software, filters, or willpower. Recovery requires learning how to stay present with difficult emotions instead of running from them.

We also discuss why many men struggle with emotional intimacy in marriage. When their wife is hurting, many men instinctively move into problem-solving, explaining, fixing, minimizing, or defending. Not because they do not care, but because emotional intensity feels overwhelming. Dr. Capparucci explains how emotional intelligence allows a man to stop focusing on protecting himself and start focusing on understanding the deeper pain underneath what his spouse is experiencing.

One of my favorite parts of the conversation is our discussion about connection. Addiction thrives in secrecy, isolation, and emotional disconnection. Recovery thrives in honesty, vulnerability, emotional awareness, and healthy relationships. The more connected a man becomes—to God, to himself, to his emotions, to his spouse, and to trusted friends—the less he needs pornography to perform its old role.

This episode is for the man who is tired of fighting symptoms and wants to understand the deeper roots of his struggle. It is for the husband who wants to become emotionally present instead of emotionally unavailable. It is for the man who wants to heal attachment wounds, develop emotional intelligence, strengthen his recovery, and build meaningful connection in every area of life.

Pornography addiction often teaches a man to escape.

Recovery teaches a man to stay.

Stay present.

Stay connected.

Stay honest.

Stay in the work.

Let's get moving.

God bless.

Check out more from Dr. Eddie Capparucci at abundantlifecounselingga.com, where you’ll find resources on the Inner Child Model, emotional healing, attachment wounds, and recovery from problematic sexual behaviors.

Link to Blog Article for this Episode

Visit No More Desire Tools for Recovery for recovery tools and training, including my free eBook, Workshop, The RAIL Method ™ and more to help you break free from porn.

If you’re tired of trying to quit porn on your own, the No More Desire Academy gives you a structured path to recovery through coaching, brotherhood, practical tools, and step-by-step training. Learn more about the Academy.

If you want deeper, more personalized support, I also offer 1-on-1 porn addiction recovery coaching. We’ll work directly on your patterns, emotional triggers, recovery plan, and long-term growth. Learn more about working 1-on-1 with Jake Kastleman.

Transcript

Jake Kastleman (00:00.182)
Welcome to No More Desire, where we build a mindset and lifestyle for lasting recovery from porn. My name's Jake Castleman and I'm excited to dive in with you. Let's get started, my friend.

Jake Kastleman (00:18.776)
Sometimes it we're like a fish swimming in water that we don't even know we're experiencing such a shallowness or an inability to really feel close.

Eddie Capparucci (00:29.418)
sit and you start to peel back the onion. You know, how often did your mom or your dad tell you they looked? What was it like around the kitchen table? What was the conversation at night when you were sitting around? What was it like if you bought a problem home? No, I didn't talk to anybody bad. I just kept it to myself. Why? I don't know why. what we're gonna find out why. The large majority of those homes, those parents are not bad people.

The the good people but this inability to love fully is generational.

Jake Kastleman (01:14.926)
Do you have a hard time relating emotionally? Do you know how to relate to pain in a way that helps your wife, kids, or friends feel seen and understood? Do you know how to express your own painful emotions with calm, courage, and connection? If you don't, you're not alone, my friend. A lot of us men feel inadequate when it comes to these things. Why do some of us struggle to feel loved and connected, to love and connect, or to feel any emotion for that matter? Pornography addiction plays a key role in this, but many of us also haven't received the

training, the upbringing that we need to emotionally connect on a deeper level. But these are skills that we can build. Today's conversation with Dr. Eddie Caparucci brings answers to these questions and the solutions you need to build emotional intelligence that fuels closeness in your relationships and stability in your recovery from porn. Many of us men feel unable to express ourselves, unable to talk about heart emotions without getting defensive, over explaining or shutting down. I know this because I was the same way.

And don't know why we so often have conversations that escalate into conflict, ending with an upset spouse, hard feelings, and days of distance. Because of this, many of us simply avoid these conversations, like I did, building simmering resentment instead of communicating, which fuels further addiction cravings. Your spouse wonders why you don't see her, how could you be so hurtful? How come you're so focused on yourself? And why can't you value her pain and be there for?

You just don't know how to say the right thing. Show up for her in the way that she needs. That's how it constantly feels. Today, my guest, Dr. Caparucci, who's the author of Why Men Struggle to Love, teaches us how to overcome relational blind spots through the conversation that he and I have. We talk about being emotionally engaged, getting curious about our spouse's pain, and building true intimacy. Dr. Caparucci is a licensed professional counselor.

Certified in treating problematic sexual behaviors, creator of the Inner Child Model for Treating Addictive Behaviors, and author of six books. He is also on the board of Christian Sex Addiction Specialists International. Today, we're going to talk about how to step out of these old patterns that you've been in, understand and work through emotion, yours and hers, and overcome relational blind spots so you can start emotionally engaging and empathizing. Put simply, we discuss how to love

Jake Kastleman (03:39.352)
Deeply. Before we dive in, a reminder to follow and rate this podcast so that others looking for help can find it. And a reminder to hit that notification button so that you can keep finding it. All right, let's get started.

Jake Kastleman (03:56.0)
Eddie, it's such a pleasure and a joy to have you on the show, man. Welcome.

Eddie Capparucci (03:59.586)
Jake, thank you for having me. I've been excited. I know we've been trying to plan this for a while and a lot of stuff on my end didn't allow it to happen, but I'm glad to finally be here and I'm really looking forward to it.

Jake Kastleman (04:10.776)
I know we put it like three weeks out to schedule with both of our calendars, and then we put it another four weeks out because you had something very difficult going on in your life at that at that time, a loss that you suffered. And I know, man. That that grief, I'm so sorry, man. So so sorry. So on the other side of that, we've made this episode happen. Today we are talking about, speaking of love and grief, we're talking about why men struggle to love. you have a book.

Eddie Capparucci (04:21.557)
Yeah, what I gonna go?

Jake Kastleman (04:40.91)
Called Why Men Struggle to Love. Fantastic that you know about this, that you're an expert on this topic, because when it comes to addiction and recovery, our ability to love, our ability to connect is absolutely central to that. Maybe we could start there in what you understand, Eddie, about love, connection, and how these play an integral role in the development of addiction, sex addiction, porn addiction, and others, other addictions.

Eddie Capparucci (04:42.902)
They do.

Eddie Capparucci (05:10.592)
Absolutely. And as you say, you know, it it is central, as you said, you know, a and it's critical for us to be able to do this. The problem is we don't know how. As I I put in the book numerous times, there are men who are oblivious to understanding what does it mean to really love. And so go back to your question, where does that f all where do we start to unwind?

And it starts to unwind in our childhood. Sometimes it's only at, you know, our birth. Because you learn to love when a mother and a father start to bond with a child. When we start to create that connection that is so vital to us. The production of oxytocin, the neurochemical, nor n hormone.

that comes into the body, that I call it the gugu gaga hormone. Okay? It is the love hormone. That's how some people refer to it. And when that connection isn't formed, whether it is brief in some kind, or is it broken, or is not fully created, what that does, that limits

the way that we connect with other people moving forward. Now, there are many other factors that are all involved in this, which we'll go through and share, but just so, you know, to start the whole process, it is about the lack of an attachment, a secure attachment. That's what's really out. Mm-hmm.

Jake Kastleman (07:02.936)
And I like that you said you talked about a brief, broken or not fully created attachment, right? When it comes to oxytocin release, human bonding, these relationships that we form. I think it's crucial to understand for a lot of guys that I've worked with, and myself included, you know, we can look back on our lives and the ways we were raised and, you know, our siblings and things and think, you know, I mean, for some this is not the case, but for some of us, we say.

I don't think it was that bad or you know, things were pretty good and I don't think, you know, I think my child was was pretty good. But when there is a lack of a real lack of connection, a lack of emotional depth in the family or the relationships that we have, sometimes it we're like a fish swimming in water that we don't even know we're experiencing such a shallowness or an inability to really feel close.

Eddie Capparucci (07:57.996)
No, and that's what you go to get what you just said. We don't really know. I go back to the word up Olivia's. It's okay. It's I don't know. Yeah, why caused it? Mom cooked an amazing meal, kept the house clean. Dad went and worked and he went out and played catch with me every once in a while. You know, I fought with my brothers and sisters like everybody else does. No, it was good. And then you sit and you start to

peel back the onion when you ask questions like, so you know, how often did your mom or your dad tell you they loved

Eddie Capparucci (08:41.784)
Love me? Yeah. How long did this did they say that? How what kind of touch did they give you? Holding.

I don't think there was a lot of that going on, no. What was it like around the kitchen table? we ate on TV trays and walk television while we were doing that. What with the conversation at night when you were sitting around? No, everybody went to like their own rooms. What was it like if you bought a problem home? And you had a problem and don't I didn't talk to anybody about it, I just kept it to myself. Why?

I don't know why. well we're gonna find out why. And now we get to begin the whole process.

Jake Kastleman (09:28.012)
Right. Yes.

Eddie Capparucci (09:29.72)
But let you know, let's let's emphasize, Jake. Let that it's really important to emphasize that the large majority of those homes, those parents are not bad people. The good people. But this inability to love fully is generational. Okay. So not only did your father and mother not know how to do it, but their father and mother didn't.

your grandf great grandfather, great great grandfather, it just trickles all the way down.

Jake Kastleman (10:02.658)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I I think of my own parents, you know, in the situations they grew up in, a lot of hard things that they went through, so so difficult. And them giving me the very best that they had, right? But the examples that they had to grow up with, right? Again, their parents doing the best that they could as well, they they brought as much love as they could, but there were a lot of blind spots or

Eddie Capparucci (10:17.976)
Right. Right.

Jake Kastleman (10:30.912)
feeling unable to show up in certain ways or ways that I really needed as a highly sensitive child, I think, which is which is pretty common from what I've seen. At least the guys who come to me, maybe they resonate with me. But feeling highly sensitive and that emotions are very, very intense. We're in this roller coaster, high highs and low lows. Do you see that quite a bit?

Eddie Capparucci (10:53.452)
Because because what happens, no one's showing you how to regulate. Mm. You don't know how to regulate. So therefore, and so therefore, if you're a people who are highly sensitive, if you're going to someone seeking validation, seeking to feel, you know, accepted at that moment, to be understood, and you get don't have the time, you know, or worse yet, you pick up indirectly.

really don't care.

You're either gonna escalate more or you're gonna crash. So therefore, again, and and I have come to the understanding, belief, and this is kind of a different topic, but for me, emotional regulation is the cornerstone to recovery. It is the cornerstone of recovery. I cannot emphasize it enough. I've been pushing it for three years. I am not the first. There've been other people, Michael Barta.

Did a wonderful job in bringing this all to us. The polybagel people did a wonderful job. But you know what? Us folks in recovery in the recovery world and in the betrayal trouble, we're not doing a good enough job. We're not. We need to be really as soon as somebody comes in and we're working with them, one of the first things we have to work on is emotional regulation. One of the first things that have to happen. And I think you because if you can't emotionally regulate.

Guess what? All the wonderful things that Jake teaches you, you can't implement. I can't implement it.

Jake Kastleman (12:32.076)
Right, exactly. Yes. And just like you, Eddie, I am also a pr big proponent of that. It's one of the things that I work on with guys the most because and there's all sorts of different frameworks we can use. And, you know, I use the rail method. I also love Jenna Ramersma. She has notice no need. Love that parts work approach. there's so many different ways that we can emotionally regulate, but it it's it's true, I think, for a lot of us.

We aren't taught how to do that. It's not modeled for us and how to work through painful emotions. In fact, we're taught, just don't feel that, or just just think about something else, or I don't really I I I have other things to do. Or or even if our parents aren't saying that, as you say, we we implicitly get the message, you don't have time for my pain right now. So when I don't have that relational connection.

I have to go to some other kind of connection, quote unquote, for that regulation, if you will, right? Yes. And addiction would be the route, right? Whatever route that that is.

Eddie Capparucci (13:38.03)
What we're really looking for to back up first is like you said, we get our messages directly or indirectly, right? And sometimes it's the indirect one that wind up scarring us the most because they're just assumptions that we made. The leading trauma experts will tell you that the worst part of trauma is not the event.

It's the fact of you having to go through it by yourself. So when we came to parent with issues and were told, Now not here and all the different things you just mentioned, we had to go it alone.

We're kids. We're adolescent. We're teen. We don't we don't have a lot of worldly experiences. I d I don't I think more emotionally than I do rationally. So what am I gonna do? Well, I come up with one solution. And as I always say, it's an amazing solution. What a wonderful solution we come up with. I won't think about it.

I won't think about it. And how do you go about not thinking about it? You distract yourself. Too much television, too much food, too much sugar, too much fantasy, not sexual fantasy, fantasy. You get a younger guy like you, too much video game, you know, too much with the you know, music and all all that stuff. When I was a kid, you didn't have all that kind of stuff. You have so many distractions out there now. And then as we get older and older, we trade them out.

For things that are either more numbing, drugs, alcohol, or more stimulating sex. And if I say sex is like the mother of all distraction. Yeah. And that's how you wind up getting started and getting hooked on it. And it's all done for one reason: protect ourselves. We're trying to protect ourselves.

Eddie Capparucci (15:53.826)
from trying to having to sit with the emotional anguish that we have and we don't know what to do with it.

Jake Kastleman (16:03.662)
And for a lot of guys who are unfamiliar with this, you know, referring to an addiction like pornography as a protection, right? Can seem really foreign. It's like, a protection. So me acting out with sexual pleasure. Right. So I thought the issue is lust, right? Okay, the issue is not lust, it's distraction. Okay, and the distraction is a protection from the pain that I'm going through.

Eddie Capparucci (16:31.254)
Right. But that's the main that's the main problem. It is emotional discomfort or emotional distress. Boredom is a form of emotional discomfort. It can be. Not in all cases, but it can be. So therefore, that is what we've learned to not sit with. When no one taught us in all the things they're supposed to teach us about how to be emotionally attuned.

One of the things they're supposed to teach us is what do you do when you're hurting emotionally? What are you supposed to do? And how to regulate yourself, how to be able to process through it, how to come to understand, this isn't the end of the world. But back then a lot of that stuff seemed like this is the end of the world, okay, for us. And so without that regulation, we just run.

put our head down and we're running to life. And that's what we've always done. And so now as you get into your adult world and things are a little tense, things are a little uneasy, things are maybe too exciting.

Right. We're ready for relief.

Jake Kastleman (17:50.648)
Yes, exactly. And so, you know, I want I want Eddie, I want you to tell people a bit about your story again, because we're talking about why men struggle to love. And so we're talking about emotional regulation, being able to feel pain. I want you to talk a bit about your story, especially with revel relevance to what's given you so much passion for this topic and what experiences did you have with it, and where did that lead you to?

Eddie Capparucci (18:19.736)
Right, okay. So I'll try to keep it as brief as I can. my my issues all started. I was five years old and my father died suddenly of a heart attack one night. my mother, she was one of seven sisters, so she called several of her sisters, 'cause there were four of us, two older girls, myself and my brother, who was just an infant. He was only, I think, about six months old. And they came and took us.

the night to back to their place. I wake up the next day, I'm in this apartment with this family, and I don't remember this aunt. I don't remember any of these people. And I'm like, where am I? And all I'm told is, Your mommy and daddy are sick and you're gonna be staying with us for a while. Well my mother had a nervous breakdown, as you can imagine. Okay, here she had this little baby, she has all these kids, what am I gonna do?

And I so I stayed there for a year. wow. So my attachment was ripped apart. I don't know this. I go back, go back home. Now I go home. I have two older sisters who are now designated to watch me. My little brother, who I can't even recall until he's like maybe four years old, so I don't know where he is most of the time. My mother have to go off to work.

'Cause it's the mid sixties, okay? She's not getting a lot of money from Social Security based from from her her father's death. So she had to go work two jobs. So she's thawed a lot and she was also rather sickly. She had a very hypertension, she was a very thin, petite woman, but she was very s ill. So even when she came home, she was bedridden a lot. So my exposure was basically to my two older sisters who were they were

Very nice, they weren't abusive in any way. But teenage girls don't really want to watch a six-year-old boy. Okay? So therefore said, go to your room, go to your room, go to your room. And like I said, didn't grow up in the age of having a stereo or a TV or anything in my gay in my my room. I had a couple gay aims. We lived in a city, so I couldn't go outside. So I don't wind up having a friend till we move when I'm about ten years old.

Eddie Capparucci (20:44.854)
we move out of the city. That's what I make a friend. And then my mother remarried when I'm eleven. And he he was a kind of an ignorant man, didn't have much of an education. He was abusive. He wasn't physically abusive. He was more emotionally and verbal abuse to you. Wanted to kind of cut you down to his level, because he was very insecure about himself. Again, I don't know that at that age. So

Jake Kastleman (21:11.864)
You just know I mean at that time what's your inter

Eddie Capparucci (21:13.826)
Puppy in the chat. My interpretation is, there's something wrong with me. you you're you're not as strong as other boys, or you're you hang around with the girls and do this. And and so therefore, that took me down a path of, hey, you know what? I'm gonna go work out, I'm gonna be tough, I'm gonna be rough, nobody's gonna make me cry. Nobody's gonna make me cry, nothing's gonna make me cry. And that's the path I took. So that's

Forward, I start dating when I'm about 16. And all of a sudden, like having one girlfriend isn't enough. she's cute. she thinks I'm cute too. Boom. look at her. Boom. And I started being a womanizer. My friends did not help the situation. look at him, he's the player. Look at him, how cool.

Yeah. They just add it. That was like the label of war. And that continued.

Jake Kastleman (22:19.118)
Gave you know, it gave you some sense of identity.

Eddie Capparucci (22:22.08)
And plus we may be very manly.

Jake Kastleman (22:24.268)
Right. Right. The ill the the illusion of the the you know, the ma the masculinity that

Eddie Capparucci (22:29.838)
All five foot seven, 160 pounds in it. And so then I finally I met a woman and I'm like, wow, this is cheese special. And I I got married. And we got married. We were married for a couple of years. And then she started experiencing depression. And I was like, what's on that? She wants to go anywhere. She didn't want to do anything.

I can't I just let me help you I'll do your laundry. No, don't touch my clothes. You can't touch my clothes. It was like really bad. And I'm like, I don't know how to handle this. Right. I don't know what to do with it. Yes. And I only figured this out a couple years ago. What was that like? That was like the little boy whose mother was always sick and you didn't have access to do the things you want to do with her. And that would seem here.

And bless you. And so what I did was I sought it outside. And I started to again look it for other women, not realizing that's what it was. And finally got caught and did a little work and I was like, you know what, I can't do this. There's something wrong with me. There's something wrong. I don't know what it is. So we got divorced and continued my life.

Jake Kastleman (23:56.151)
So painful.

Eddie Capparucci (23:57.11)
So painful. Very painful. Got married again. Thought it was the one. Didn't happen. Did it again. And then finally after that I said, I gotta go get help. And

Jake Kastleman (24:09.678)
Right. You kinda ask yourself what what's the common denominator here? Was it was it that kind of thought process? Yeah.

Eddie Capparucci (24:15.31)
So now it's thirty years, that was thirty years ago. They didn't have everything that we have today. Right. A lot of my healing came through faith, through really developing a relationship with Jesus Christ. That's where the big I didn't really have it. Right. And then it was twenty-eight years ago I met my current wife and I've been faithful the entire time with her. And it's been an amazing relationship because I'd learned about me.

So how did I get here? Because I was in corporate America for many, many years. I was in the marketing and advertising world, mostly in pharmaceutical. And as I built my relationship with God in this last marriage year, he came and said, Hey, guess what? I got something else for you. And I'm like, I don't want anything else. Because I'm not.

Jake Kastleman (25:06.647)
I'm good. I got things things are working out great. I got this good career. Yeah, no.

Eddie Capparucci (25:11.842)
No, no, I got something else for you. Dude, you're gonna be a Christian counselor. I go, I don't even know what the Christian counselor is. Dude, what are you talking about? You want me to be a Christian counselor? You're gonna be one. So I I bought him for a little while. My wife had a ball. And then I went and I did the work. I went back to school, got another master's degree, did all the state work to be licensed, did all the supervision, and now I'm almost fifty years old, okay? At that point. Right. And did all of that.

And I go, All right, I'm gonna be a Christian counselor. I open up my own practice and here come these people. And here's a little repression, here's little anxiety, you know and then all of sudden they start flocking in. All these men who are struggling with problematic sexual behavior. And I'm like, my gosh, this is what he wants me to do. Hm and since then, this is what we got today.

Jake Kastleman (26:12.366)
Amazing.

Eddie Capparucci (26:13.516)
Yeah, amazing vibrant blessed practice, sick books, the speaking engagements, all that, all that again, it's all him. Not me, it's him. I'm just the vessel.

Jake Kastleman (26:24.878)
Right. I love that. Well it's the it's the the that humility and that openness, Eddie, that that puts you in a space to be able to to grow and to do this work and I love that.

Eddie Capparucci (26:36.648)
You may have you may have to you may have to talk to my wife about the humility thing. 'Cause every that that pride pride still is my number one is my number one sin. I have to combat it a great deal. Well to continue to give him the credit.

Jake Kastleman (26:53.346)
Man, look, Eddie, it like it makes me think of myself where, you know, people will tell me, you know, Jake, you're just so p like, do you ever get angry, Jake? Do you ever get mad? You just seem so calm and even killed. And and I'll tell them, My friend, anger has been the number one issue in my life. And they're like, No, it ha they don't believe me. No, it hasn't. Like, you don't

You don't know, right? And everybody's got their their things that they that they do. Yeah. Yeah.

Eddie Capparucci (27:24.142)
But that that again, that's the pathway, Jake, of sanctification that you're on, that I'm on, that all of us are on, or should be on, where we're just trying to shed away one ugly scale at a time. And by the time we get to judgment day, we'll still have some ugly scale. Could we will not be Christ like. But at least we could say, you know what? I finished strong. 'Cause that's what my mission's been for the last thirty years.

The finish draw. Mm-hmm. And I get a I get a chance to do it in helping people for him and his kingdom. That's amazing.

Jake Kastleman (27:56.726)
I love that.

Jake Kastleman (28:05.368)
So good, so good. And and your story, you know, if I may briefly makes me think of mine too. I think this is so often kind of the pattern that I see with some people who start businesses or ministries or these things where you're on a path, you know, things are going pretty well. you have your own ideas, right? I remember I kind of I tried to start my own my own gig, right? Helping guys with porn addiction.

And it didn't really go well and it was really difficult and didn't, you know, I created these online courses and it was just like crickets for the most part. And I was like, you know what? I'm just done. I'm not gonna I'm I'm gonna quit all this. And I remember, you know, I j I just kinda just got rid of everything that I had and I still have my podcast. Right. And I was about to click the button to just be done with the buzz sprout subscription that, you know, publishes to everything.

Eddie Capparucci (29:03.544)
Yeah.

Jake Kastleman (29:04.106)
And I remember I had this, it's one of the most distinct feelings I've ever had. Do not do this. Do not push that button. Do not get rid of the subscription subscription. You have to keep doing this podcast. And remember, I sat, I just paced the room for like two hours. And I was like, f by the end, I was like, fine. Okay, fine. I will keep the podcast. I will do the freaking podcast. And it was probably about a a year later, still doing that podcast when I.

Opened up, you know, under No More Desire, a new name and started taking clients and everything and it expanded into, you know, something that's that's my full time gig and I and I love it. And it's like, my gosh. But all the fe all the fear, all the resistance, all those things that you go through and you're saying, I have my plan, wait, I'm gonna do it. And it's like, Yeah, but I've got a better one. Although

Eddie Capparucci (29:53.388)
It's gonna be on top of I I I mean those word things you were talking about, I remember those same conversations. It's like, I don't think you really understand what you're doing here, okay? I mean, look at me, I am financially successful, I have all this stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And my wife was just she was howling. She was howling. And she'd say to me, She goes, You know how this is gonna end, right?

Yeah, I'm probably gonna get probably gonna get hit by lightning. That's probably what gonna

Jake Kastleman (30:25.42)
my gosh. It actually makes me think of, you know, recently in my in my church we've been reading in Exodus and it makes me think of Moses where he first meets God in the burning bush and you know, God is like, Hey, you're gonna go save all these Israelites from Egypt. That's what I want you to do. And Moses is like Are you sure me? I don't even speak very well. Like I'm not I'm I'm not the guy. I'm not

Eddie Capparucci (30:51.722)
No, take Aaron with you.

Jake Kastleman (30:53.804)
Yeah, take Aaron with you. Exact He's like Well, 'cause I love how God responds like, Dude, I will give you the gifts, I will bless you. And Moses is still like, I don't think he's like, Okay, take Aaron with you. Okay, you'll have his help. And then Moses becomes obviously one of the greatest prophets of all time.

Eddie Capparucci (31:11.15)
Let me tell you this. Let me tell you one thing I did. I can't even remember I'm telling you. I f when I finally broke down and said, okay, fine, I'll do this. I'm gonna do this. I go, but I have one thing of you. I've got to have one thing of you. You will not make me a good counselor, you will make me a great counselor. And what I mean by that is not that you what I mean by that is that you will give me

the energy that I need to be able to continue to great gain the insight that I need to have the wisdom to be able to deliver to these people what you want me to deliver. That's what I need from you. Now I don't know if I'm a great counselor or not, but I d I have s I remember I told my wife and she said, bargaining, bargaining, just keep bargaining.

Jake Kastleman (32:06.766)
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I teach men step-by-step methods to process difficult emotions, how to relate to and respond to cravings without fighting, without panicking. I use IFS, CBT, mindfulness, and nervous system balancing practices to help guys regulate emotion. Then I also teach lifestyle changes that increase dopamine, transform relationships, and build daily routines and habits that support recovery. And this is not just information, we apply all of it.

Through hands-on exercises in a structured program. Overcoming porn may feel impossible. I get that, but building good habits that eventually remove it from the picture is possible. If you want to learn more, head to nomordesire.com/slash coaching. You'll find links to the academy and group coaching there, as well as a link to learn more about the one-on-one program and set up a free discovery call. I'd love to see you there, my friend. Back to the show. Well, Eddie, I want to I want to ask you.

This question and dive deeper into this topic of why men struggle to love and talking about emotional IQ, actually, emotional intelligence. so I'm actually going to read. I I was, you know, looking at the description of your book and things and really found something that was very pointed that I think a lot of men can relate to. And if I think of the first eight years of my marriage, especially when I read it, I was like, yeah, all me, all things that I was, right? And still things that I'm practicing overcoming. But I want to actually read this. So

Jake Kastleman (34:30.1)
So many men who struggle with porn sex addiction struggle to feel deeper emotion, right? And love as fully as they would like to, or in ways that their loved ones need. So this quick passage, okay, it says many men have a low emotional IQ, right? And this is especially true for those who deal with addictive behaviors. A low emotional IQ prevents men from it really powerful things here, bonding with others, understanding what they feel, expressing their emotions.

Dealing with others' emotions, engaging in social settings, and knowing what to say. Right. So again, I know these are all things that I struggled with heavily throughout my teenage years and my twenties, and things that I've been practicing, working through, and overcoming. and so you say that many men don't have the skills or the resources.

Eddie Capparucci (35:05.71)
So,

Jake Kastleman (35:25.73)
To develop that greater emotional maturity? What skills or resources do you think we're lacking in current Western society or maybe in the world in general? And what do we need to be working on and practice?

Eddie Capparucci (35:38.422)
Yeah, the the skills are out there. When it comes to people who get marred in the addiction world, and I'm talking about all addictions. Okay, whether they are substance or whether they be behavioral d addiction. They a large, large majority of them, at least from my perspective and in my practice, 'cause I also worked with substance at one point.

without doing all my residential work and things like that. And Again. With with people in the substance substance addiction, yeah. Yeah. And about ninety percent trouble with having a emotional IQ. So it's there. And that because there were problems at the family of origin. And like I said, we're just kicking the can down the road with that.

Jake Kastleman (36:10.498)
He said he worked with what?

Jake Kastleman (36:24.718)
Right.

Eddie Capparucci (36:35.7)
When it comes to okay, what do we be able to do from a skill perspective, people need to learn, and I think first and foremost is the idea of just learning to slow everything down. We are in such a rush, we're such a haste that we don't take the time to understand what are the want and the desires.

And needs of us, those around us. We are very inwardly focused. We talked about that a moment ago. We're very inwardly focused. And the reason we turned inwardly focused, because we felt there wasn't anyone there who could help us to deal with our emotions. So we took it upon ourselves. I don't need anyone to help me with this. I don't need any, I'll I'll do it all myself. But when you do that,

you become very self-absorbed, maybe not selfish. You might give people things, you might give your time, things like that. Not selfish, but self-absorbed in the sense that I can't make a lot of time for what maybe the want, needs and desires of other people are. Unless maybe they come to me and ask me directly, but I can't pick it up. I don't know, you're crying, you're upset. well, I hope that works out for you.

and move on. Because if because if I try to engage with you and what if you start sharing your emotions with me?

Jake Kastleman (38:11.392)
I don't even know how to handle that, right. I can't I can't make room for my own my own painful. How can I do

Eddie Capparucci (38:13.928)
Right, right. Like

Eddie Capparucci (38:19.668)
So once again, it is self-protection. It's all about protection. So we need to slow things down and to understand that there are the people around us do have wants, needs, and desires. The other thing we need to do is start to go back and tackle some of the core emotional issues that we dealt with in that family of origin.

Okay, where did we get the message? Again, whether it was directly or indirectly, that emotions are not really healthy, that emotions actually can be unsafe if I share them or I take them on. So what do I do with that? Where did that develop? Where did it come from? Because what we're gonna find out as we go through the process, and again, it might be a very valid

reason. For example, a single mom has three kids, one of them deal with a disability. She had to throw almost all her effort into that child. And so therefore you come with somebody, come on, you know what? You know how to handle it. You can deal with that on your own. I really can't. I got and again, mom's not a bad person. It's just the circumstances. And for you now to see that with clarity.

versus mom was rejecting me. No, mom wasn't rejecting you. Process through it, but process through the hurt and the pain of the rejection. But what would mom really this is what it goes to with my inner child work. What I feel versus what it real. Okay? What I feel, I felt rejected. Because mom was always with Tim because Tim, you know, needed so much care.

I felt rejected, I felt unseen, I felt unheard. Okay, right. What was reality? Well, reality was that my brother really needed a lot of care and taken care of. Reality was that my mother was highly stressed with all of this going on. The reality is that you know what, she did make some time every once in a while just to walk up to me and give me a hug.

Eddie Capparucci (40:43.522)
And so we f we factor all those things in. And this way then we can make the determination. Cause see, when we're trying to figure out what is real, we have to get rid of everything that's an assumption. We have to get everything, get rid of everything that's an internal lie that we believe about ourselves. And we have to get get rid of all the fear. One of the fear of my event, mom loves Tim more than me. Why that's an assumption and two is a fear. Gotta get rid of So what you left with?

I'm left with the fact that my mother had to raise a disabled child with two others and she was overwhelmed. But I know she loved me because she told me it several times.

Yeah. Wow. I could have some compassion there. Okay. Now look at the wife and look at the trouble she's going through. You think maybe we can have same kind of compassion for her? And so therefore that's what tried to take us down that road. And I'm I'm simplifying it right now for these purposes, but and there's a lot more that's involved in it. But that's what we're trying to do with teaching people how to to love one another.

Jake Kastleman (41:51.554)
Yeah.

Eddie Capparucci (41:52.212)
Mm. You gotta you gotta get rid of you gotta get rid of all I'm sorry, you have to get rid of all the negativity. You gotta get rid of all the lies, all the things that you're believing that are not true and most important of all of them is the fear. It's the fear. And you I'm not telling you to get rid of the fear. That would be stupid to tell you you're a fear. But hold on to the fears you have that I will be rejected, that I will be belittled.

That I will be on soon. Instead, hold on to the fear and move forward despite the fear. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Take a chance. Take a risk. my God, my kid's screaming right now. What are you talking about? Take a risk. We're not taking any risk. I'm going back in the corner. Come with me over here. All right? No. No, we have to take some risk. And that doesn't mean that sometimes when you go to to seek validation from someone.

you might not get it back. It may that may that may happen. But that shouldn't preclude you from doing to someone else. You know, you see it especially like in junior high, probably the most difficult time for most kids, right? 'Cause they're cause they're the popular kid, there's the kids were just alienated and then there's everybody else who's just muddling around trying to they're like the nomads at the desert

Moses was leading them around. Right. And what happened, one of the biggest complaints you see about kids or you hear from kids from back then was, nobody accepted me. Nobody, you know, wanted me to be my friend. You asked them, How often did you look? Tell me how how much of an effort did you make to f to make friends in middle school?

Eddie Capparucci (43:47.95)
I didn't. No, that's right, you didn't. Why didn't you? Well it's gonna be rejected. Yes, you know the assumption that you made. So therefore you kept yourself out. You didn't put yourself out there. And if you did put yourself out there once or twice and got rejected, that pulled you all the way in. You didn't try again. And sometimes you have to look under every rock to try to find your group and where you belong. 'Cause you would have belonged.

But therefore don't allow that fear today to keep you from not belonging and expanding your network of people because it's all about relationship. That's what life is about.

Jake Kastleman (44:30.562)
See, and it's it's so interesting you say that too, Eddie. I think of my own life, you know, my own story where when I was when I was in in high school, you know, I dealt with so much social anxiety, right? Just this this crippling fear consistently of needing to portray a certain image and wanting people to like me and all this perfectionism about how I needed to behave and, you know, what did I what I needed to kind of the the air I needed to be.

To put off and look cool and everything and fit in. And it's interesting because as I reflected on it many years later, I had all these acquaintances and all these friends, people who liked me. I was, I think in some ways I was kind of one of the hinge points to like several groups that were coming together. And then I I feel like I, I feel like in a way that was.

Unconscious, I really sabotaged that because of how much I feared, as you talked about, feared what people thought, feared showing up. It was this constant pressure all the time. I have to be the one that, you know, I carried all this weight of needing to be the center of people's happiness in a lot of ways. Right. And I got into I got into smoking weed and drugs and drinking in a party scene and everything. And then all those friends.

They all disbanded. They all left and they all went on their own. You know, and I and I was left with this small group, right? And I remember my senior year, it was just me and like four other people I hung out with by the end. And and I've often I've grieved that, right? It's like, my gosh, like look what I was a part of and the people I got to spend time with. And I I just wonder how much of that was my own just feeling like, well

This is what I have to do to fit in, right? But also cutting myself off to more relationships and more of the joy that I could have had ultimately.

Eddie Capparucci (46:35.712)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, there could have been many factors that were involved in the again, going back to looking at again the family abortion and what was going on, it could have been maybe a bit of a rebellious period for you. Yeah. That didn't wanna have to deal with the pressure of fitting in and being perfect with everybody else. But instead, you know, I'm gonna go over here. Well, the rest of these folks were like, No, we like the Jake Ku's doing that.

We don't like that, Jake. So now they cut you off also with that. but again, it is this this goes back to the idea of again, we are so oblivious to understanding w how and why we think, feel, and do the things we do. If we knew this, if we understood, if we had that self-reflection or perspective.

Back to you. my gosh. How different everything would be. So diff.

Jake Kastleman (47:41.196)
Right. And why, you know, one of the things I really just harp on over and over with with clients is taking time for emotional work, whether that be journaling or it be parts work or it be meditation or prayer, you just need a way of confessing emotions, talking about the hard stuff. Why is it hard? Right. What am I learning? What did I learn from the hard thing? And talking about the happy stuff too, and taking that time and how many of us who struggle with addiction

Do not take that time at all, right? It's they're like, I've never journaled a day in my life. Well, okay, it's time to start doing some emotional journaling so you can take that time to really work for I I can't, you know, and I'm sure this is the same for you. I can't count the number of times I've been told I'm just not really an emotions guy.

Eddie Capparucci (48:29.25)
Yeah. Well

Jake Kastleman (48:31.894)
In order to get sober, we're gonna help you become an emotions guy. And they're like, Okay, like, I promise you're gonna love it eventually.

Eddie Capparucci (48:41.618)
Well, I also tell them but I'm not gonna get you to a point where you're gonna wear your emotions on your sleeve. So don't worry about that. That's not gonna happen. But then I always try to tell people, you know, if you're on this end of the spectrum where you're like at ten percent, all right, you're not going up to eighty or ninety, you're not gonna Like forty is good. Forty's better than great. Forty's amazing and then you just keep going, keep building upon it for the rest of your life.

Jake Kastleman (48:59.65)
Maybe forty would be great.

Eddie Capparucci (49:10.17)
That's all. And and believe me, your your partner, your spouse, your girlfriend, whoever, they will love it. They'll love seeing that kind of a change.

Jake Kastleman (49:19.094)
Yeah, it's huge. It's huge. So, let's talk about this, Eddie. When it comes to kind of and this sounds a little bit harsh, but when when we when we have a low emotional IQ, I wanna discuss kind of what that looks like from a behavioral perspective. How we tend to interact or some of our our our habits. yeah, let's talk about what that looks like.

Eddie Capparucci (49:43.0)
For gas. For for the one the major one, the one that probably most partners are gonna be upset about is the lack of attunement. So yeah. We're not able to really kind of read people. We're not good at, okay, what do we do in this scenario? What do I do in this situation? She's sitting here, she's talking to me and she's upset. And now all of a sudden she's crying.

And I I've seen how many guys in my practice, if I did a couple session, and she cried and here's a box of tissue right next to him, and he does not pick up the bob and give her to her. He sits there and makes her wipe her nose on her sleeve. He doesn't even think, let me do that. That's what we mean by that lack attunement. They just

Choes, picking up the cue. So normally, and what I'll do is she tried and she has her head turned and I'll point to him. I go, get off and give it to her. So now I just ratted out a bunch of guys with any of my wives are listening now. But but it's those types of things. It's like, you know, if she says something to you and she's looking for a response, and you're like,

Jake Kastleman (50:50.834)
Yeah.

Eddie Capparucci (51:13.792)
And the problem is what's happened, you become emotionally dysregulated and you're fearful and you're you're really kind of panicking, even though you're kinda like this, because you don't know am I supposed to respond? How am I supposed to respond? Right. What will be the right way to do it? What will be the wrong way to do it? Right.

Right. You're you're that that's what's going on in your head. That's going on in your head and she continue then she starts again. But you're still focused on what am I supposed to do with that last thing that just happened? And and she's t continuing to go and you're just like a deer on headlights.

Jake Kastleman (51:59.15)
Right. And and and tell me about this, Eddie. One of the things that I see a lot is the inclination to try to fix or control the emotion.

Eddie Capparucci (52:08.088)
Yes. Right. Well that that's all part of when we look at thinking remember I told you about protection? We're trying to protect ourselves. Well, how do we protect ourselves? There's many ways you could protect yourself. One, I could become very big and aggressive, try to shut it down. I could go and withdraw of shutting it down. Okay. You don't have to feel that way.

I can minimize it. There's nothing in future. You don't have to worry about that. It's gonna be fine. What I'm gonna do, I'm trying to shut it down. I know how that could be better. I know what you could do. You sh you are trying to shut it down. That is the point of all and I just gave you four examples of ways to do it. There's probably another half a dozen that you use. But we develop those and we use them. And then the people that we're with

They don't feel heard. And it's like, but I just told you something. I just said something. What do you mean you don't feel like hurt? I dressed you. No, you would dress what's gonna make you feel better. Not what's gonna make me feel better. I just went through that with Wayne yesterday, where he, you know, answered her and she was there. And I said to him, I go, I go, Well, that was about you, not her. And she's like,

Thank you. Did you hear that? You heard that, right? What he said.

Jake Kastleman (53:38.606)
Right. The first eight years of my marriage is just like that's the nonstop story, right? Yep. The nonstop story is yeah, just that. and and and the I the strange thing is, and what I've what I've seen a lot is I really thought I was trying to help my wife feel better.

Eddie Capparucci (53:41.866)
If

Eddie Capparucci (53:52.931)
Bart.

Eddie Capparucci (54:08.002)
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Could you or Bolivia? G how to raise.

Jake Kastleman (54:12.782)
Right, right. Right. And it's and moving to a place of presence for her emotions, openness to her emotions, giving space for her to fully feel the emotions and not need to fix them and to provide support and understanding. I could be told to do all those things, but I didn't I didn't understand how how to do it. You know?

Eddie Capparucci (54:40.622)
And so therefore they're not really sincere. If you have to be programmed, if you have to be scripted. And that's where a lot of women today in the recovery world, when guys c are coming at them with the affirmations or or the valid the validation statement, and they're like, You're reading from a script. Right. You're reading from a script.

And and that's why I say to guys, I go it need to come from the heart. And that's why what you have to really do is to be able Well c let's go back for a moment. Let's go back to the question was what are some of the techniques we need to do to learn to be emotional being? The one third one goes back to what we talked about way back in the beginning. Emotional regulation. And you can't wait to get in the trenches to start to emotionally regulate. You have to

practice it just like you said, where if the journaling you do, where that every day I'm I ask my client every day, three times a day, take ten to fifteen minutes and practice emotional regulation technique. Yeah, but wait a second, I feel okay right now. I go, yeah, you feel okay, you're never okay. But you feel okay, all right. We all do. But we're never fully okay. Promise. I promise you. Right? So so so but it is true.

We feel good, but we're really not good. So therefore, okay, I'm gonna do this. How do I feel? How do I feel okay? All right, fine. Go. So you do your do your technique. Okay, what do I feel now?

Well, do feel I do feel more relaxed. I feel like I'm I feel I don't feel like I have as many racing thoughts as I did a little while ago. See, I want them to understand what's happened is they've gotten closer to the window of tolerance. And I want them to understand what it's like when they're in that window of tolerance. Because this way then when they're in the trenches and they're having the conversation with their wife and we want to lean in.

Eddie Capparucci (56:50.126)
And we wanna lean in be and what we always wanna do is look for what is her pain point. Because if you don't focus on what her pain point is, you know what you're gonna wind up focusing on? Your pain point. Hmm. my God, I can't believe she's talking to me this way. This is hard, but when is this ever gonna end? You know what? It's never up. She's always condemning me. I don't think she liked me at all. I think our marriage is gonna be okay.

It's gonna be all you you. You have to lean in to find out what is the pain point. For example, right? You come home from work, walk in the door, hey, how you doing? And she's like, Why are you here?

Coach Well, I 'cause I live here. So Drew was supposed to call. Damn, you're right. I'm supposed to call when I before I leave the office. I forgot to call. I'm sorry. I was walk when I was leaving the office, somebody called me. I had to get on the call. It was a client. I just got off it when I pulled in the driveway. Excuses, excuses. You're always giving me a good Well, you know, I've been calling every day.

For the last six months since you put that boundary out there, right? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, he could stay there focused on and he could say what's the pain point? The pain point he would think is I didn't call. Pain point. You know what the pain point is? You lied. You lied. You told me you were going. You promised. You broke a promise. You said you were gonna call.

Jake Kastleman (58:20.91)
Right.

Eddie Capparucci (58:35.466)
Every day before you left. You could have told that guy, I need one minute. I need one minute, I'll be right back. And you didn't. You put him before me. And that now she may not even know what the real pain point is at that moment. She may stay on that conversation. But if he can move away from that conversation and say, you know what? I broke a promise to you. I'd like to get it. my gosh. She would fall over.

He'd have to resuscitate her. Okay. And but but that that's what we need to do and that's part of being an emotional being, having a high emotional.

Jake Kastleman (59:15.032)
Cause the defen the common kinds of responses, right? And I can get into these too, right? And I really need to be careful and cognizant and practice. Defense, overexplaining, making excuses, minimizing. Well, it's just one day. I mean, it's not a big deal, right? Like I I just didn't call today. I've called like every every day for the last three weeks. So why are you making a big deal about this? now we're in a fight for the next half an hour and now

Mad at each other for five days, right? And it's, my gosh.

Eddie Capparucci (59:48.224)
And why? Why, Jay? Let's use the word again. Protecting. Why? I'm trying to protect myself versus, she's in pain. See that. If guys learn that, what I teach my emotional regulation at emotional tumor group, the thing I teach the man both is focus on the pain point. If you do that.

thing will be very, very small. Mm-hmm.

Jake Kastleman (01:00:22.328)
So good. So powerful. Well, thank you, Dr. Eddie, for sharing. so great to have you here, man. I love it. I think this will be a very helpful conversation for so many people. if people want to find you, they want to work with you, where should they go?

Eddie Capparucci (01:00:37.698)
They can reach me at innerchildmodel at gmail.com. Again, innerchildmodel at gmail dot com. And I would love to offer them. I have a list of twenty two different emotional regulation techniques. I'd love to give a copy of it. It also includes ten different pressure points if they wanna use that to help them along the way. But thank you so much for having me here. I gotta tell you this is one of the most

enjoyable interviews I've done. I've done I don't know how many, way too many. some of are ooh, I wish I never did those. But this was amazing and thank you. Especially since I don't feel so good. I'm sure you could hear my voice really starting to crash and we get to the end. So but thanks Jay. It was wonderful. Yeah.

Jake Kastleman (01:01:25.258)
Thank you, even despite your cold at your champ for being here. And again, thank you so much. And we'll put some links in the show notes for people if they want to get those emotional regulation tools out there.

Eddie Capparucci (01:01:35.662)
So my brain.

Jake Kastleman (01:01:38.104)
You too, my friend. Thanks for listening to No More Desire. It's a genuine blessing for me to do the work that I do, and I wouldn't be able to do it without you, my listeners. So thank you. If you've enjoyed today's episode, do me a favor. Follow this podcast, hit the notification bell, and shoot me a rating. The more people who do this, the more men this podcast will reach. So take a few minutes of your time and hit those buttons. If you want to take your sobriety to the next level,

Check out my free workshop, The Eight Keys to Lose Your Desire for Porn, or my free ebook, The Ten Tools to Conquer Cravings. These are specialized pieces of content that will give you practical exercises and applied solutions to overcome porn addiction. And you can find them at No More Desire dot com. As a listener of the No More Desire Podcast, you are part of a worldwide movement of men who are breaking free of porn to live more impactful, meaningful,

Selfless lives. So keep learning, keep growing, and keep building that recovery mindset and lifestyle. God bless.

Jake Kastleman (01:02:57.718)
Everything expressed on the No More Desire podcast are the opinions of the host and participants, and is for informational and educational purposes only. This podcast should not be considered mental health therapy or as a substitute thereof. It is strongly recommended that you seek out the clinical guidance of a qualified mental health professional. If you are experiencing thoughts of suicide, self-harm, or a desire to harm others,

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